Thursday, October 19, 2006

Silly Church People

Ok - so, what?

Here is a statement that bugs me when church people ask/state it; "We want something different, but we don't know what it is.?"

What are these people really asking?
How many times do, when we change and go different, do the same people say the same things?
Are these people the same people all the time?
What do I do now?


Anonymous said...

Where I'm at now, if someone says something like that to me, I would feel inclined to ask them to keep their opinion to themselves until they know what it is they want and are ready to make it a reality.

Christians are so stinkin' opinionated about everything and then we sit around and complain about the problem instead of doing something to find a solution. Maybe that's just me though. DO SOMETHING!

Boomer said...

There's a distinct difference between complaining and dialoguing. I think the lines between the two are quite often blurred.

Do I want something different? Absolutely. Do I know what that is? No. Am I going to do anything about it? I think so, but I guess only time will tell.

As for 'these' people, they aren't interested in changing themselves, so they want to hide behind changing surroundings, and complain if there's no where to hide.

Derwyn said...

Hmmm...I'm trying hard to recall a verse in 1 or 2 Timothy where Paul instructs Tim on how to be a pastor and says that he should care what the people want.

I'm still trying to find that verse...

Still looking...

Oh, look, I've found a whole bunch of verses where Paul simply tells Tim to "Preach the Word", "do the work of an Evangelist", and "Command certain men not to teach false doctrines".

Oh, look, Paul himself directly tells Tim what his congregation should be doing in 1 Tim 2 and 3.

Oh, look, Paul tells Tim to present himself as a workman approved by God...not by someone else.

Oh, look, Paul tells Titus that his people are jerks, so he must "rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith" (1:12-13)

Still can't find anything about following the lead of the congregation...


Troy said...

Yea, I'd agree with most of what was already said. If you don't know what is wrong figure it out first.

I find that most people who are working and keeping busy in the church don't have time to complain.

Does the church need to change? Yes, but you have to be apart of it to change it. You can't be on the outside and change it for the good.

I feel that the church is a living organism so it should be changing all fo the time. It's only dead bodies in wax museums that don't change!

Markimus said...

I think the question is a brilliant asked one. And to not just hear what people are saying but actually discern what is coming out.

I think the challenge is that as a leader we must be careful not to allow our expectations of self skew what people are communicating?

What are they really saying... Spend time with them ... often we struggle to really hear what they are saying.

As a leader I think its a bit of a lie to say that we really know everything about achieving our objectives in our minisry ... so whay can't someone else say that ...maybe in their own way.

Steve said...

To simply throw a person aside because they are saying, "There needs to be change, but I don't know what" seems a little rash.
Like Mark said, we should spend time with them, and listen.
But at the same point, the only way you really have grounds to say that there needs to be change is if you really are involved. Unless there is something happening that is preventing that and you sincerely don't know where it is. but even then, both sides need to do research.

Just my thought.

Derwyn said...

Now that I've thrown out my provocative response, let me fill it out a bit...

I'm certainly not advocating an approach that says that the pastor knows everything and the people can't have any input. I certainly think it's wise to know your church people and understand their needs, desires, perspectives, etc and it's valuable to include their input in decision-making. No problems there.

However, my fear is that we might have gone down a road where the people ultimately determine the path we take. Let's not forget that the title of the post is "Silly Church People", and the follow on questions in Jeremy's post reflect individuals who seem rather fickle...

Since we live in a democracy, our running of the church is heavily influenced by the idea that the people have the power and the leaders are subject to the will of the people. This concept is not in the Bible, but was thought up by a Greek dude before Jesus arrived.

How would we lead the church if we didn't have to worry about a budget; in other words, if fewer people showed up, it would make no difference to our bottom line and our salaries? Would we teach some things and decide some things differently? Would be freer to lead? Would the verses telling us to rebuke and command scare us less?

An individual dictator is scary. But so is a collection of dictators acting as one.

Markimus said...

What does it mean to be involved? Is that a metric based on the leaders perspective or on the individuals perspective?
If I attend does that make me involved... honestly in some cases that is a big contribution [to endure a long service with 20 min of announcments and a 55 min message]

db said...

What a bunch of hypocrits you are!
First you complain about how others in your silly religion are critical, but CRITISIZING THEM.

Paul & Wanda Moores said...

Hypocrites, you forgot the E. And I think rather than seeing us as hypocrites (don't forget the E) you could see us as realists, knowing that we're not perfect but we're trying to make things better.

Don't forget the E!!

deeper said...

I've been hearing that statement more and more in the last couple of weeks. I think it's a great day when people say they are no longer content with what they have always done. Is it "silly church people" or wrong to let people know that this isn't there cup of tea anymore or would we rather have them come to us and sit in misery the whole time or feel obligated to be there out of respect or someother unknow factor. I think that would defeat the purpose of them being there. People should be able to express how they feel without us judging them or maybe we should listen! I mean isn't this type of thinking how revolutions start, with wanting something diffrent, is this not something to explore and dare is say embrace?